The Brighton Paradox: LOOK UP!

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[00:00:12] Could we have a mayor?

[00:00:14] And we haven't got one

[00:00:16] and there is no leadership of the city

[00:00:18] and I really believe that

[00:00:20] that does not exist

[00:00:22] and is that a bad thing?

[00:00:24] I don't know.

[00:00:26] But the council doesn't have the resource

[00:00:28] to really develop

[00:00:30] that kind of leadership role in a big way

[00:00:32] and the council is also politically quite fluid.

[00:00:36] Every four years

[00:00:38] it's like somebody else's turn to lead the council

[00:00:41] which is, you know, good thing for democracy

[00:00:43] keeps all politicians on their toes and so on

[00:00:46] but ultimately it doesn't provide

[00:00:48] a long-term vision with

[00:00:50] political will and funding

[00:00:52] and, you know, all of that

[00:00:54] moving in the same direction

[00:00:56] The amount of people that were fed

[00:00:58] it was probably one of the best examples

[00:01:00] in the country of what can happen

[00:01:02] to get together and feed people and address poverty

[00:01:04] and really the government

[00:01:06] just needs to identify

[00:01:08] where that happens and funnel money into it

[00:01:10] but they try and circumvent it and do their own thing

[00:01:12] which is bonkers. But anyway

[00:01:14] that infrastructure does exist here

[00:01:16] and what happened in Covid is it started to get joined up.

[00:01:18] Brighton and Hove

[00:01:20] needs to

[00:01:22] keep looking outwards

[00:01:24] and connecting

[00:01:26] with areas around it

[00:01:28] I suppose I'm in an interesting position

[00:01:30] not unique but an interesting position

[00:01:32] having worked in the council

[00:01:34] for another few years

[00:01:36] and then having worked with

[00:01:38] I'd say over 250 enemies across the region

[00:01:40] when I was doing the work

[00:01:42] with Brighton University

[00:01:44] and now I'm working very strongly

[00:01:46] with training providers

[00:01:48] so I've got a number of different lenses

[00:01:50] but I also know how

[00:01:52] having worked within the council

[00:01:54] certainly at the leadership level

[00:01:56] there is innovation

[00:01:58] there are thinkers

[00:02:00] there are people who

[00:02:02] want to do things differently

[00:02:04] But the thing that frustrates me

[00:02:06] and you know we talked a little bit about

[00:02:08] some bits that frustrates

[00:02:10] is that when you're talking about

[00:02:12] whether it's environmental sustainability

[00:02:14] or any kind of progressive change

[00:02:16] and shifting of power

[00:02:18] it's like

[00:02:20] people are up for it

[00:02:22] but it has to come with sacrifice

[00:02:24] taxes or giving

[00:02:26] space

[00:02:28] giving away some power

[00:02:30] and it's kind of that's the bit that gets me

[00:02:32] we seem to have a lot of things in place

[00:02:34] in order for these power structures to change

[00:02:36] but

[00:02:38] do people actually really

[00:02:40] are they willing to make a sacrifice

[00:02:42] because you can't have one without the other

[00:02:45] We're near the end of this series

[00:02:47] and there's something clearer to me now

[00:02:49] than when I started

[00:02:51] and it's maybe not that complicated

[00:02:53] so this might be a shorter episode than the others

[00:02:57] but it does need the space

[00:02:59] to look at as a separate paradox

[00:03:01] because if we see some changes

[00:03:03] on this particular topic over the next 10 years

[00:03:06] then it might be what ensures Brighton & Hove

[00:03:09] is one of the most prosperous

[00:03:11] inclusive, ambitious

[00:03:13] economically viable, sustainable

[00:03:15] and proudly weird cities on earth

[00:03:17] and that thing

[00:03:19] is clear leadership

[00:03:23] what this project has shown me

[00:03:25] is that there is incredible wisdom

[00:03:27] and huge experience in Brighton & Hove

[00:03:29] leaders are everywhere

[00:03:31] and good leaders are everywhere

[00:03:33] and I don't mean necessarily those

[00:03:35] that have been elected

[00:03:37] or hold particular civic positions

[00:03:39] I don't mean necessarily the CEOs

[00:03:41] chairs, directors, heads or presidents

[00:03:43] it can be all of those

[00:03:45] but it is more commonly found

[00:03:47] by just looking at where change is happening

[00:03:49] and where people are coming up with a plan

[00:03:51] involving the people around them

[00:03:53] and then getting on with it

[00:03:55] making it happen

[00:03:57] and you can see this in children

[00:03:59] community action groups

[00:04:01] niche business networks

[00:04:03] GPs, investors, lawyers, artists

[00:04:05] shopkeepers

[00:04:07] and as we know Brighton is a home

[00:04:09] for bold and special missions

[00:04:13] but there is a difference between a collection of leaders

[00:04:15] as effective and ambitious as they may be

[00:04:17] and a system of leadership

[00:04:21] Brighton & Hove, from what I am picking up

[00:04:23] has to double down

[00:04:25] on getting behind some key individuals

[00:04:27] who have the skill, capacity

[00:04:29] and accountability to push the city forward

[00:04:31] or the influential networks

[00:04:33] they need to radically collaborate

[00:04:35] and let go of some of their territory

[00:04:37] and find common cause

[00:04:39] and take responsibility to act on it

[00:04:41] the assets here

[00:04:43] the resources are powerful

[00:04:45] some of the best examples

[00:04:47] of start-up and small business excellence

[00:04:49] of an innovative and impactful voluntary sector

[00:04:51] globally respected academic research

[00:04:53] and of smart public service designers

[00:04:57] so how can this be harnessed better

[00:04:59] who needs to do it

[00:05:01] and is Brighton & Hove enough

[00:05:03] do we need to get serious

[00:05:05] about a greater Brighton economic area

[00:05:07] and Brighton's responsibility

[00:05:09] is the biggest city in the south-east

[00:05:11] outside of London

[00:05:13] hmmm

[00:05:15] I'm Richard Freeman

[00:05:17] and I'm exploring leadership structures

[00:05:19] and what a city needs to do

[00:05:21] to look up and look out

[00:05:27] my name is Richard Freeman

[00:05:34] and from always possible

[00:05:36] PLUSX Innovation Hub

[00:05:38] and Lo-Fi Arts

[00:05:40] supported by Brighton & Hove Albion Football Club

[00:05:42] this is the Brighton Paradox

[00:05:46] Episode 9

[00:05:48] Look Up

[00:05:50] The problems with the mayor question

[00:05:52] is that it does come down to

[00:05:54] a very simple political calculation

[00:05:56] if there was a mayor of Brighton & Hove

[00:05:58] he or she would be a centre-left mayor

[00:06:00] if there was a mayor of Brighton & Hove

[00:06:02] greater Brighton & Hove

[00:06:04] which involve Worthing or Shoram

[00:06:06] or whatever in Lewis and so on

[00:06:08] the mayor would be a conservative

[00:06:10] so there is a party political

[00:06:12] issue around who can agree

[00:06:14] about what they should be mayor of

[00:06:16] or where they should be mayor of

[00:06:18] which is slightly aggravating

[00:06:20] Here's Simon Fanshawe in what might

[00:06:22] possibly be an opening pitch

[00:06:24] to become Brighton & Hove's first elected

[00:06:26] mayor but definitely not one for

[00:06:28] greater Brighton

[00:06:30] My own view has always been

[00:06:32] that as Brighton & Hove we would benefit

[00:06:34] from a

[00:06:36] strong central figure

[00:06:38] and I've always thought that actually

[00:06:40] and you can see it in Andy Burnham

[00:06:42] in Manchester and you saw it during the

[00:06:44] Covid pandemic the extent to which

[00:06:46] the mayor of the West Midlands and so on

[00:06:48] they were able to give a kind of leadership

[00:06:50] which only relatively few

[00:06:52] council leaders have ever been able to give

[00:06:54] so I've always felt that that single

[00:06:56] accountable figure surrounded

[00:06:58] by a cabinet that's elected

[00:07:00] and then of course councillors who then

[00:07:02] call them to account that actually

[00:07:04] that model is useful and would be good

[00:07:06] for the city. I'm not a great

[00:07:08] fan of the mayor of the

[00:07:10] greater region but that may be

[00:07:12] just my own political

[00:07:14] prejudices. My hunch

[00:07:16] is that for the people who remember

[00:07:18] the city status campaign

[00:07:20] and have seen the big changes in Brighton

[00:07:22] over 30 to 40 years

[00:07:24] might well support a renaissance for figures

[00:07:26] like Simon, Steve Bassam

[00:07:28] now Lord Bassam of Brighton

[00:07:30] or Ivor Kaplan the former MP for Hove

[00:07:32] and the inaugural deputy leader

[00:07:34] of the newly merged Brighton & Hove council

[00:07:36] these figures are remembered

[00:07:38] for taking things forward and being brave

[00:07:40] at the time

[00:07:42] but for the under 30s in the city

[00:07:44] I think their vision

[00:07:46] of who would make a good 21st century mayor

[00:07:48] with a unifying role

[00:07:50] and with a mandate to hold the city's complexities

[00:07:52] in one brain

[00:07:54] would look very very different

[00:07:56] decentralized

[00:07:58] inclusive in design

[00:08:00] radical maybe

[00:08:02] Ian Trevitt first moved here

[00:08:04] in the 1980s

[00:08:06] he's all for an elected mayor

[00:08:08] it was seem to him that

[00:08:10] Mayor Fanshawe would be a great idea

[00:08:12] I'm a fervent believer

[00:08:14] that we should have an elected mayor

[00:08:16] you know, someone like

[00:08:18] I imagine Simon Fanshawe's elected mayor down here

[00:08:20] he'd roughly a few favourites

[00:08:22] but he'll get things done

[00:08:24] if you had an anti-burn

[00:08:26] and tight person down here

[00:08:28] one

[00:08:30] there's so many things you've got

[00:08:32] sought out in Brighton, the homelessness

[00:08:34] and the drug problems

[00:08:36] some of those places, and James Street

[00:08:38] for instance, those flats

[00:08:40] there's people there living in terrible conditions

[00:08:42] because there's addicts in the street

[00:08:44] and blocks with

[00:08:46] families or older people

[00:08:48] there's loads of social problems

[00:08:50] we've got sought out in Brighton

[00:08:52] but also

[00:08:54] when Brighton's being publicised

[00:08:56] in these international fairs

[00:08:58] to invest in Brighton

[00:09:00] come to Brighton

[00:09:02] you want someone there that's actually promoting the city

[00:09:04] thinking what can we do

[00:09:06] the Brighton Centre

[00:09:08] you know, it's not fit for Brighton really

[00:09:10] it's a concrete

[00:09:12] monstrosity

[00:09:14] that could be so much better

[00:09:16] and King Alfred

[00:09:18] there was these ideas about doing the

[00:09:20] Frank Geary blocks

[00:09:22] back in the time

[00:09:24] and all the sort of

[00:09:26] the Nimbis or whatever

[00:09:28] just whacked it down

[00:09:30] so the I-360

[00:09:32] is the only

[00:09:34] architectural addition

[00:09:36] Caroline Lucas

[00:09:38] MP for Brighton Pavilion on the other hand

[00:09:40] she's not that enamoured of the idea

[00:09:42] I'm not sure the solution is one voice

[00:09:44] whether that's a mayor or anyone else

[00:09:46] I mean, I think it's partly

[00:09:48] the price you pay for having

[00:09:50] an awful lot of people with

[00:09:52] very big ideas and

[00:09:54] perhaps an unwillingness

[00:09:56] to work together

[00:09:58] as well as they might

[00:10:00] I can certainly relate to that

[00:10:02] but I'm not sure it's for the lack of

[00:10:04] some charismatic leader that is

[00:10:06] going to just somehow

[00:10:08] sweep all of that away

[00:10:10] I think it's part of the DNA of Brighton

[00:10:12] is that we challenge one another and we

[00:10:14] think about it from all the different angles

[00:10:16] that you could possibly do

[00:10:18] and sometimes that means that it takes a long time

[00:10:20] to get something off the ground

[00:10:22] but I don't think we should let that

[00:10:24] become the defining narrative of the city

[00:10:26] I think we've done some amazing things

[00:10:28] and

[00:10:30] the success of the festival for example

[00:10:32] or something like the Brighton and Hove Food Partnership

[00:10:34] or the application to become a

[00:10:36] UM city biosphere

[00:10:38] or indeed some of the

[00:10:40] investment that is now coming into the city

[00:10:42] and the fact that

[00:10:44] some building is now happening for ages

[00:10:46] as always said that you can

[00:10:48] get planning permission to do anything in this city

[00:10:50] and I think that is easing up now

[00:10:52] so I think it's true

[00:10:54] that when you've got a lot of people with a lot of ideas

[00:10:56] then by definition

[00:10:58] it's going to be

[00:11:00] more of a process of

[00:11:02] negotiation and compromise

[00:11:04] to rally behind

[00:11:06] two or three really good ones

[00:11:08] and that's going to be harder maybe than when you're in a city

[00:11:10] where there's only one good idea

[00:11:12] so people get behind it

[00:11:14] but I certainly don't think

[00:11:16] that some having an external

[00:11:18] charismatic leader is just going to suddenly

[00:11:20] crystallize that, I think it's part of what

[00:11:22] is Brighton and Hove to be honest

[00:11:24] Seb Royal

[00:11:26] CEO of Platform 9

[00:11:28] he's ambivalent about it

[00:11:30] but he definitely won't be putting himself

[00:11:32] forward

[00:11:34] I can categorically tell you that I would not be running for mayor

[00:11:36] things are going on in my life

[00:11:38] I'm looking at life

[00:11:40] in a slightly different way

[00:11:42] and I'm very much

[00:11:44] I think taking on the role of mayor

[00:11:46] I'll leave that to somebody else

[00:11:48] but I wouldn't necessarily be against it

[00:11:50] but I certainly would not be

[00:11:52] running for it

[00:11:54] but I'm going to be going into this

[00:11:56] the more I'm less convinced that it matters

[00:11:58] whether individuals want to mayor or not

[00:12:00] or want to be mayor, not really

[00:12:02] if the greater Brighton metropolitan area happens

[00:12:04] or if the city becomes

[00:12:06] a unitary authority

[00:12:08] but wider sweeping up shawram, worthy

[00:12:10] crawling in Lewis in some way as well

[00:12:12] then it's just going to happen

[00:12:16] there's going to be a general election in 2024

[00:12:18] whoever wins

[00:12:20] will probably impose some sort of devolution

[00:12:22] onto every city area

[00:12:24] Brighton, no exception

[00:12:26] for me the question is

[00:12:30] how do we ensure

[00:12:32] that whatever mechanisms of leadership

[00:12:34] and accountability come our way

[00:12:36] work in whatever form they arise

[00:12:40] in the grand scheme of things

[00:12:42] Brighton and Hove is tiny

[00:12:44] Sussex is pretty small

[00:12:46] certainly too small to drive all future thinking

[00:12:48] around political and geographical boundaries

[00:12:50] we have to use all available space

[00:12:52] to solve the housing crisis

[00:12:54] and to ensure there are great spaces for businesses

[00:12:56] public squares, central

[00:12:58] and community hubs

[00:13:00] we need better transport right across the area

[00:13:02] it's not just a Brighton thing

[00:13:04] we need to drastically re-world the countryside

[00:13:06] protect water sources

[00:13:08] and support growers across Sussex

[00:13:10] so that Sussex feeds Sussex

[00:13:14] this is bigger than one city

[00:13:16] and it needs a lot of political

[00:13:18] and cultural capital and bravery

[00:13:20] I've been spending a lot of time

[00:13:22] with the Office of National Statistics data

[00:13:24] number crunching

[00:13:26] because that's the kind of awful

[00:13:28] nerd that I am

[00:13:30] here are some facts

[00:13:32] Brighton and Hove is aging

[00:13:34] and its population growth is slowing down

[00:13:36] in fact

[00:13:38] the city has only grown by

[00:13:40] under 2% in the last 10 years

[00:13:42] there will be thousands more

[00:13:44] over 50s in the city

[00:13:46] by 2030

[00:13:48] there are only hundreds more 18-30 year olds

[00:13:50] the areas of Sussex

[00:13:52] with growing populations

[00:13:54] aren't on the coast

[00:13:56] they're at the north of the county

[00:13:58] either side of the M23

[00:14:00] we'll do in the east

[00:14:02] Crawley in the west

[00:14:04] people are still looking north

[00:14:06] creating a base for their roles in London

[00:14:08] so let's start with Psyche

[00:14:10] if this is the case

[00:14:12] and maybe we need to try and change this being the case

[00:14:14] how does Brighton and Hove lead

[00:14:16] as a city

[00:14:18] going forward

[00:14:20] Brighton and Hove needs to

[00:14:22] keep looking outwards

[00:14:24] and connecting

[00:14:26] with areas around it

[00:14:28] this is Rachel Carter

[00:14:30] now at Creative Futures

[00:14:32] performing of University of Brighton

[00:14:34] and the City Council

[00:14:36] after a high flying life at the BBC

[00:14:38] I suppose I am an interesting position

[00:14:40] not unique but an interesting position

[00:14:42] having worked in the council

[00:14:44] for a number of years

[00:14:46] and then having worked with

[00:14:48] I'd say over 250 enemies

[00:14:50] across the region

[00:14:52] when I was doing the work with Brighton University

[00:14:54] and now I'm working very strongly

[00:14:56] with training providers

[00:14:58] so I've got a number of different lenses

[00:15:00] but I also know

[00:15:02] having worked within the council

[00:15:04] certainly at the leadership level

[00:15:06] there is innovation

[00:15:08] there are thinkers

[00:15:10] there are people who

[00:15:12] want to do things differently

[00:15:15] you have

[00:15:17] a challenging

[00:15:19] political environment as we've said

[00:15:21] it's changing constantly

[00:15:23] you have trade unions

[00:15:25] who don't necessarily

[00:15:27] view the world

[00:15:29] as changing in the rapid way

[00:15:31] that it needs to

[00:15:33] and I choose my words carefully

[00:15:36] so I would say

[00:15:39] I've arrived today

[00:15:41] we're in

[00:15:43] plus X

[00:15:45] and I drive down this road

[00:15:47] because the school where I'm a governor

[00:15:49] is located just behind

[00:15:51] Morscombe Station

[00:15:53] and it's another world now

[00:15:55] it used to be Field Desolate

[00:15:57] sort of this place that

[00:15:59] it wasn't a destination

[00:16:01] it was a travel through

[00:16:03] and I did

[00:16:05] as I arrived and I looked up

[00:16:07] because we don't always look up

[00:16:09] and I looked up and I saw the buildings

[00:16:11] and I saw this creativity

[00:16:13] in the buildings

[00:16:15] we've got the sound rooms

[00:16:17] across the road which we use

[00:16:19] as part of the music service

[00:16:21] so I do come into that building

[00:16:23] but

[00:16:25] I started to feel actually

[00:16:27] this could be really exciting

[00:16:29] as

[00:16:31] seen as a destination

[00:16:33] for businesses

[00:16:35] thinking they can locate here

[00:16:37] because that's part of the problem

[00:16:39] we have in the city is that

[00:16:41] there are

[00:16:43] two universities

[00:16:45] students from two universities

[00:16:47] who don't want to leave

[00:16:49] they finish and complete

[00:16:51] and they will occupy posts

[00:16:53] entry level posts often

[00:16:55] that block for local

[00:16:57] for local young people

[00:16:59] so what I'd like to see happen

[00:17:01] is that we attract

[00:17:03] organisations

[00:17:05] whether those are technological organisations

[00:17:07] whether those are

[00:17:09] may not even be in our

[00:17:11] traditional strengths

[00:17:13] around leisure and tourism

[00:17:15] but we become a destination

[00:17:17] and we attract organisations

[00:17:19] that then create

[00:17:21] opportunities for people here

[00:17:23] to progress and to develop

[00:17:25] and to develop their knowledge

[00:17:27] and that becomes

[00:17:29] something that fulfills the city

[00:17:31] so people can see their opportunities

[00:17:35] I've been criticised

[00:17:37] for not having many council voices in this series

[00:17:39] especially given how

[00:17:41] integral and central the city council

[00:17:43] is to people's arguments about leadership

[00:17:45] I've not actively excluded anyone

[00:17:47] invitations were sent

[00:17:49] but I've also valued

[00:17:51] maybe the little bit of space

[00:17:53] in which the council are not always seen

[00:17:55] as the solution

[00:17:57] Brighton House City Council

[00:17:59] until very very recently

[00:18:01] has been a three way political marginal

[00:18:03] tussling between red

[00:18:05] green and blue minority administrations

[00:18:07] and as Rachel Carter says

[00:18:09] there are innovators

[00:18:11] and thinkers in the council

[00:18:13] some sadly have left

[00:18:15] to create bold things elsewhere

[00:18:17] some have doggedly stayed

[00:18:19] but the council has a reputation

[00:18:21] for stubbornness

[00:18:23] and bureaucratic arm wrestling

[00:18:25] where ideologues battle for power

[00:18:27] often at the cost of getting things done

[00:18:29] we have explored at length

[00:18:31] some of the city's missed opportunities

[00:18:33] which many lay firmly

[00:18:35] at the door of the council

[00:18:37] I don't know if that's entirely fair

[00:18:39] but that's what we're dealing with

[00:18:41] the reality is

[00:18:43] it's always about resources

[00:18:45] I didn't want to put the council front and centre

[00:18:47] because I think the council should always be a partner

[00:18:49] and not always the answer to everything

[00:18:51] and the minute you bring it into a conversation

[00:18:53] that is where people point

[00:18:55] many will disagree with me

[00:18:57] but I think that the role of the council

[00:18:59] as an instigator

[00:19:01] a cash machine

[00:19:03] an arbiter

[00:19:05] and a catalyst

[00:19:07] in the ways that has been projected upon it

[00:19:09] is actually maybe unhelpful

[00:19:11] and maybe the council itself

[00:19:13] is unhelpfully sought to maintain

[00:19:15] and defend itself in the past

[00:19:17] it is

[00:19:19] and can be a force for good

[00:19:21] and a force for change

[00:19:23] but not on its own

[00:19:25] and often not in the lead

[00:19:27] Tech entrepreneur Andy Budd

[00:19:29] gave me an example

[00:19:31] of how the council could, on occasion

[00:19:33] be driven only by resource challenges

[00:19:35] and sometimes that at the cost

[00:19:37] of imaginative creative leadership ideas

[00:19:41] 10-20 years ago

[00:19:43] I wanted to turn deconstruct

[00:19:45] into the UK south by south west

[00:19:47] I contacted the local council

[00:19:49] and they were like ok well

[00:19:51] what we can do is you can pay us

[00:19:53] and we'll do some marketing for you

[00:19:55] and I was like no, no, no

[00:19:57] we could turn this into a huge thing

[00:19:59] it could be international

[00:20:01] we could be bringing hundreds of thousands of people

[00:20:03] as a council we have a marketing team

[00:20:05] and if you pay us we'll do some marketing

[00:20:07] that's the only thing they're interested in

[00:20:09] having a conversation with

[00:20:11] when we founded the Brighton digital festival

[00:20:13] which I was one of the co-founders of

[00:20:15] we went to the council and said hey look

[00:20:17] can you do anything

[00:20:19] and they were like they're using boards

[00:20:21] that are owned by the council

[00:20:23] could you help advertise this thing

[00:20:25] and they're like no, but you can pay us

[00:20:27] to advertise it

[00:20:29] so a lot of this was around

[00:20:31] the council needing to make money

[00:20:33] I totally get that

[00:20:35] but there was a time when

[00:20:37] if you had the right people in power

[00:20:39] that saw the right opportunity

[00:20:41] there were things you could have done

[00:20:43] that would have really sparked

[00:20:45] the growth of the economy

[00:20:47] an independent elected office

[00:20:49] appointed by the people

[00:20:51] to whom you take ideas like this

[00:20:55] here is a concept for economic growth

[00:20:57] or community regeneration

[00:20:59] or sustainable design matter, what do you think?

[00:21:01] hmm

[00:21:03] one imagines a mayor's office

[00:21:05] would be more open to problem solving

[00:21:07] than a cash trap council

[00:21:09] forced into a loop of statutory

[00:21:11] circifian tasks

[00:21:13] but the fundamental problem with any elected leader

[00:21:15] is the folly of political cycles

[00:21:17] Brighton and Hove has had enough

[00:21:19] of ideological squabbles

[00:21:21] and short term promises

[00:21:23] if I'm to believe all the people I've spoken to

[00:21:25] for this project

[00:21:27] but who will lead big change?

[00:21:29] who will be around

[00:21:31] connected and resourced

[00:21:33] to drive a decade of big change

[00:21:35] it's a bit of ego in Brighton

[00:21:37] let's put it that way

[00:21:39] I'll put it mildly and so there's a bit of ego in Brighton

[00:21:41] and I think ego is quite often

[00:21:43] fed by a big event

[00:21:45] or a big thing that happens

[00:21:47] and you're the big person

[00:21:49] or the one that did that big thing

[00:21:51] and having come from an events background

[00:21:55] previously, I know it's really hard

[00:21:57] putting on those big things

[00:21:59] it's really difficult but

[00:22:01] at the same time

[00:22:03] I remember getting to the end of those big events

[00:22:05] and you individually feel a bit empty

[00:22:07] you don't worry about the legacy

[00:22:09] because you're just glad it's done

[00:22:11] and you got through it and everybody enjoyed it

[00:22:14] that was Declan Cassidy from Inter Games

[00:22:17] he has a lot of interesting stuff to say

[00:22:19] about leadership in this city

[00:22:21] legacy is a very different thought process

[00:22:23] to an event process

[00:22:25] you're growing a seed into a tree

[00:22:27] I guess personally having

[00:22:29] moved from

[00:22:31] an event mindset to

[00:22:33] much more of a legacy mindset

[00:22:35] with what I do at Inter Games

[00:22:37] the legacy stuff is just really hard work

[00:22:39] and it takes ages

[00:22:41] and you don't see much

[00:22:43] of those big things happening for quite a long time

[00:22:47] and you have to be really focused

[00:22:49] and you might be that you're focused on

[00:22:51] 10 human beings alone

[00:22:53] rather than

[00:22:55] those big marketing numbers of

[00:22:57] 50,000 people came to the event

[00:22:59] and all those big

[00:23:01] tourism numbers

[00:23:03] or agency numbers

[00:23:05] and I think maybe Brighton can sometimes

[00:23:07] be a little bit focused on those

[00:23:09] those kind of things

[00:23:11] rather than that kind of long term

[00:23:13] development work

[00:23:15] or big change work

[00:23:17] how you judge the success of something

[00:23:19] if we're judging things

[00:23:21] we're judging the success in terms of

[00:23:23] infrastructure builds

[00:23:25] how many cool big buildings have we got

[00:23:27] then we're doing pretty well

[00:23:29] because we've got quite a few new ones of that

[00:23:31] to a certain extent

[00:23:33] but I don't judge success like that

[00:23:35] that's not a judge of the community

[00:23:37] or how

[00:23:39] good people are feeling in a city about being

[00:23:41] in the city

[00:23:43] and what that means

[00:23:45] and I'm not sure if you are someone from Hangleton

[00:23:47] what big building

[00:23:49] well exactly, yeah

[00:23:51] yeah absolutely

[00:23:53] I haven't seen any kind of

[00:23:55] big work happening

[00:23:57] around inequality in the city

[00:23:59] at all really

[00:24:01] if you're in Brighton for any more than

[00:24:03] 10 years

[00:24:05] and you're in the kind of development space

[00:24:07] in arts or business or whatever

[00:24:09] you would have been invited

[00:24:11] to multiple round tables

[00:24:13] and there'll be another big

[00:24:15] change planning session for the city

[00:24:17] or like how do we become more this

[00:24:19] or how does the city

[00:24:21] change to become focused on arts

[00:24:23] there will be, you will have gone to multiple ones

[00:24:25] of those

[00:24:27] but you get tired

[00:24:29] because a lot of effort goes

[00:24:31] into those things and there's a lot of excitement

[00:24:33] and it's really fun

[00:24:35] and you meet loads of people

[00:24:37] and everyone's like yeah we can do something

[00:24:39] but

[00:24:41] you don't see the changes happening from that

[00:24:43] and I'm sure there are

[00:24:45] things that happen from those things

[00:24:47] but once again the legacy of those events

[00:24:49] isn't communicated in a way

[00:24:51] that enables those participants

[00:24:53] to understand that what they said

[00:24:55] in that meeting had some kind of

[00:24:57] made some kind of a difference

[00:24:59] What's the missing piece of the jigsaw then

[00:25:01] what is the catalyst

[00:25:03] in terms of a personal organization

[00:25:05] or a group or a change

[00:25:07] of behavior

[00:25:09] that would bring the tech sector and the education sector

[00:25:11] if you said the will is there

[00:25:13] the want is there, the energy is there, the skill is there

[00:25:15] but what's

[00:25:17] what's the thing in the middle?

[00:25:19] I think we also spoke about maybe the idea of

[00:25:21] a single vision or a leader

[00:25:23] or whatever

[00:25:25] driving this one agenda

[00:25:27] maybe being shunned sometimes

[00:25:29] a little bit by Brighton

[00:25:31] because it wants to have a very collectivist attitude

[00:25:33] which is

[00:25:35] actually massively at odds with

[00:25:37] its kind of egotist nature

[00:25:39] which it doesn't really want to admit

[00:25:41] I don't think, or nobody wants to talk about that

[00:25:43] or it's not

[00:25:45] it's the legacy of an individual

[00:25:47] rather than the legacy of the city

[00:25:49] I think Brighton

[00:25:51] is a place where you can get an individual legacy

[00:25:53] you can do those kind of things

[00:25:55] but I think you do need

[00:25:57] a vision definitely

[00:25:59] that vision

[00:26:01] doesn't need to be for everything

[00:26:03] it doesn't need to be an all encompassing vision

[00:26:05] I think that's really hard

[00:26:07] and I think in the past

[00:26:09] if you do that

[00:26:11] then it's going to fail

[00:26:13] it's too big a task

[00:26:15] it needs to be broken down into smaller areas

[00:26:17] something like bringing together

[00:26:19] artistic and

[00:26:21] technologists

[00:26:23] to feed off each other

[00:26:25] and to grow

[00:26:27] it's a really good place to start

[00:26:29] we could be doing more of that for sure

[00:26:33] I think community organisations

[00:26:35] could be being funded better

[00:26:37] I think a lot of this comes down to funding

[00:26:39] in the right places

[00:26:41] and I think if we saw

[00:26:43] the outcomes of

[00:26:45] something like Superfusion

[00:26:47] track how many more tourists it brought down

[00:26:49] or how

[00:26:51] it benefited the

[00:26:53] local economy

[00:26:55] what were the tangible benefits of the city

[00:26:57] that could be communicated in a better way

[00:26:59] then there could be more money found

[00:27:01] for that kind of thing

[00:27:03] I think there's lots of money found for big infrastructure projects

[00:27:05] it's much harder

[00:27:07] for a non-profit

[00:27:09] that's working in the community

[00:27:11] or an artistic collective

[00:27:13] that maybe might transform some of Brighton streets

[00:27:15] or might come together

[00:27:17] to create some kind of community festival

[00:27:19] that money's really hard to find

[00:27:21] and I think isn't seen

[00:27:23] in the sense of

[00:27:25] the city economic growth

[00:27:27] so maybe a little bit of reframing there

[00:27:29] might be a way forward

[00:27:31] my brain hurts now

[00:27:33] it's time for a little break

[00:27:45] this podcast is brought to you by Always Possible

[00:27:47] but who are we

[00:27:49] Always Possible works with ambitious businesses

[00:27:51] charities and public services

[00:27:53] that are thinking about what's next

[00:27:55] from architects to aerospace companies

[00:27:57] puppet theatres to primary schools

[00:27:59] business networks to big data analysts

[00:28:01] if you're wanting to be brave

[00:28:03] with some big decisions

[00:28:05] or to be clearer about what to prioritise

[00:28:07] then an award winning workshop

[00:28:09] from the Always Possible team

[00:28:11] is a brilliant starting point

[00:28:13] we care about just one thing

[00:28:15] building ideas that work

[00:28:17] for creative, intuitive

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[00:28:27] about how we could power up your mission

[00:28:29] visit Always Possible.co.uk

[00:28:31] Always Possible.co.uk

[00:28:44] Hello, Chris here

[00:28:46] producer of the Brighton Paradox

[00:28:48] I just want to take a few moments

[00:28:50] to talk about some really important organisations

[00:28:52] that are helping this project to happen

[00:28:54] and who are part of Brighton and Hove's backbone

[00:28:56] in the 21st century

[00:28:58] The Albion, a football club

[00:29:00] that earns its place in the Premier League

[00:29:02] more and more every day

[00:29:04] showing leadership on and off the pitch

[00:29:06] this really is a club

[00:29:08] for, of and from Brighton and Hove

[00:29:10] and was a partnership between

[00:29:12] Brighton and Hove

[00:29:14] long before they officially joined together

[00:29:16] if you don't follow football

[00:29:18] the clubs role in the local economy

[00:29:20] the extraordinary work of

[00:29:22] Albion in the community

[00:29:24] and the ambition to be a constantly

[00:29:26] innovating space for new ideas

[00:29:28] in business and sport

[00:29:30] all of these make it far more than just

[00:29:32] a successful football club

[00:29:34] and Plus X Innovation Hub

[00:29:36] on Lewis Road jumped on board

[00:29:38] right away many of the interviews

[00:29:40] you've heard took place in their

[00:29:42] State of the Art podcast studio

[00:29:44] and their generosity and curiosity

[00:29:46] demonstrates that their commitment

[00:29:48] to business collaboration, innovation

[00:29:50] and celebration is real

[00:29:52] our project partners have kept

[00:29:54] the wheels turning with support

[00:29:56] advice and help with production costs

[00:29:58] United Us is one

[00:30:00] of Brighton's most forward looking

[00:30:02] creative brand and design agencies

[00:30:04] the University of Brighton's

[00:30:06] Help to Grow management program

[00:30:08] is providing business school level

[00:30:10] expert support and mentoring

[00:30:12] to ambitious local businesses

[00:30:14] with 90% of the costs funded by Government

[00:30:16] this whole project

[00:30:18] is an experimental collaboration

[00:30:20] to learn more about our partners

[00:30:22] and the people mentioned and many others

[00:30:24] please check out the notes to this episode

[00:30:26] on your podcast platform

[00:30:33] we've heard throughout this whole series

[00:30:35] countless examples of people

[00:30:37] rolling their sleeves up and having a go

[00:30:39] Declan's right

[00:30:41] the ability to create meaningful change

[00:30:43] is all too often linked

[00:30:45] to access to finance and to people's time

[00:30:47] and only those things

[00:30:49] but what if investment

[00:30:51] in the local economy does start

[00:30:53] to recognise more of the grassroots

[00:30:55] lo-fi revolutions

[00:30:57] as something also intrinsically valuable

[00:31:01] HSBC seem to spot it

[00:31:03] with their talk of Brighton's alternative

[00:31:05] and rebellious economy in their report

[00:31:07] 10 years ago

[00:31:09] listen back to episode 4 for more on that

[00:31:11] but maybe leadership

[00:31:13] can come from every chair

[00:31:15] as the expression goes

[00:31:17] but do we also then have to actively develop

[00:31:19] the people who might be the next ones

[00:31:21] to step up

[00:31:23] they must have something special about them

[00:31:25] don't they

[00:31:27] where do we find them

[00:31:29] I asked Naomi Alexander

[00:31:31] what the Genesis of Brighton's people theatre was

[00:31:33] as they seem to have stepped

[00:31:35] into a leadership conversation

[00:31:37] and opportunity

[00:31:39] around arts and inclusion

[00:31:41] and I guess in terms of you asked about the Genesis

[00:31:43] of Brighton people's theatre

[00:31:45] that was I guess a sense of frustration

[00:31:47] that I felt that

[00:31:49] quite often

[00:31:51] a lot of the arts is out of touch

[00:31:53] and elite

[00:31:55] and

[00:31:57] speaks of and to a certain demographic

[00:31:59] and I would see

[00:32:01] a certain demographic

[00:32:03] coming up outside

[00:32:05] events and we just feel like

[00:32:07] when someone's going to do something to change this

[00:32:09] and then you know one day

[00:32:11] you sort of go oh god maybe

[00:32:13] you need to give it a go

[00:32:15] and so I guess that's the

[00:32:17] it's born out of that sense of frustration

[00:32:19] to change things

[00:32:21] and a sense of wanting to

[00:32:23] democratise culture

[00:32:25] and to play

[00:32:27] and explore and have fun with people

[00:32:29] and see what might emerge if we try

[00:32:31] doing things differently

[00:32:33] and so yeah we've got a show

[00:32:35] that we're making at the moment

[00:32:37] which is called Born and Bread

[00:32:39] Bread's spelled B-R-E-A-D

[00:32:41] and that's all about

[00:32:43] people's relationship to the city through food

[00:32:45] that's going to be on an aca

[00:32:47] where we're an associate company in July this year

[00:32:49] next year we're making

[00:32:51] Songbird Cafe

[00:32:53] which is going to tour parks as part of the Brighton Festival

[00:32:55] and then beyond that

[00:32:57] we're hoping that we can produce at least one new show a year

[00:32:59] and

[00:33:01] we're currently developing a three-year business plan

[00:33:03] which I'm currently talking to trustees

[00:33:05] and staff and members about

[00:33:07] but it's I'm hoping that

[00:33:09] it will involve a large scale

[00:33:11] participatory process each year

[00:33:13] where we talk to hundreds of people across the city

[00:33:15] exploring a particular theme

[00:33:17] that is chosen by our members

[00:33:19] and then we develop ideas for new shows

[00:33:21] that come through those conversations

[00:33:23] and that those conversations are

[00:33:27] an explicit invitation

[00:33:29] from Brighton People's Theatre

[00:33:31] to people that we don't currently know

[00:33:35] because even though I've lived here all my life

[00:33:37] obviously I don't know everyone

[00:33:39] and there are always new people arriving in the city

[00:33:41] and that's part of what I think keeps it fresh

[00:33:43] and alive and an exciting place to be

[00:33:45] so we always want to meet new people

[00:33:47] and we say very explicitly

[00:33:49] whether you were born here or you've just arrived

[00:33:51] you're part of Brighton People's Theatre

[00:33:53] so yeah we want to meet and listen to people

[00:33:55] and understand what is important to people

[00:33:57] and then make shows about that

[00:33:59] In January 2023

[00:34:06] just before episode one

[00:34:08] of this podcast was released

[00:34:10] I received an email

[00:34:12] it was from a grandmother called Sue

[00:34:14] who was secretary of the friends of Hove Lagoon

[00:34:18] Hello

[00:34:20] it said

[00:34:22] I read about your new podcast in the August

[00:34:24] and it looked quite exciting

[00:34:26] this was how it started

[00:34:28] I was delighted

[00:34:30] Brighton Paradox hadn't even been published yet

[00:34:32] but according to this letter

[00:34:34] we were going to have at least one listener

[00:34:36] woohoo

[00:34:38] however I'm interested that there don't seem to be any contributors

[00:34:40] from the community and voluntary sector

[00:34:42] she continued

[00:34:44] wait a minute

[00:34:46] I was very surprised

[00:34:48] that she was a very well-established

[00:34:50] and man-splained

[00:34:52] with a list of all the charity leaders

[00:34:54] I'd interviewed

[00:34:56] and synopsis of episode two

[00:34:58] which looks closely at some of the organization

[00:35:00] shaping Brighton's communities

[00:35:02] ha take that Sue

[00:35:04] she calmly replied

[00:35:06] you list of rare group of well established

[00:35:08] community organizations

[00:35:10] that have paid staff and influence

[00:35:12] but there are a large number of groups in the city

[00:35:14] that have taken the park

[00:35:16] conserve butterflies

[00:35:18] campaign for more trees, visit the elderly

[00:35:20] respond to planning development issues

[00:35:22] sit on council run committees

[00:35:24] run life-saving courses for children

[00:35:26] run festivals and of course many sea and beached base activities

[00:35:28] I'm not trying to split hairs

[00:35:30] but there is a difference

[00:35:32] any discussion about the future of the city

[00:35:34] has to acknowledge these unpaid volunteers

[00:35:36] and the contribution they bring

[00:35:38] and we're all very concerned about the council's lack of money

[00:35:40] to provide basic non-statutory services

[00:35:42] well I started to write

[00:35:44] another response

[00:35:46] outlining how there are hundreds of voices

[00:35:48] missing from the Brighton paradox

[00:35:50] and I just couldn't speak to everyone

[00:35:52] and I stopped

[00:35:56] I deleted my response

[00:35:58] Sue had of course

[00:36:00] nailed it

[00:36:02] in the question about where leadership is coming from

[00:36:04] in the city

[00:36:06] that we have to be crucially

[00:36:08] looking at what's happening below the radar

[00:36:12] the effectiveness and scale

[00:36:14] of people taking charge of problems that need to be solved

[00:36:16] and working together on solving them

[00:36:20] it probably shouldn't have to happen like this

[00:36:22] there should be enough resources but there aren't

[00:36:24] and Brighton and Hove

[00:36:26] does seem to foster and enable

[00:36:28] forms of community organizing

[00:36:30] that drives some of the other aspects of the city

[00:36:32] that makes it an unusual

[00:36:34] and unique place to live

[00:36:36] in a way that often people can't quite articulate

[00:36:40] maybe this is it

[00:36:42] so what if

[00:36:44] what if

[00:36:46] Sue's leadership was more visible

[00:36:48] what if

[00:36:50] the city's infrastructure

[00:36:52] better recognized these decentralized groups

[00:36:54] that get stuff done

[00:36:56] what if it was a little bit more centralized

[00:36:58] so that knowledge and resources could be better shared

[00:37:00] Gah!

[00:37:02] places are complicated

[00:37:04] Sue inspired me

[00:37:06] to create some gatherings

[00:37:08] in which people can meet face to face

[00:37:10] to take some of these ideas further

[00:37:12] and she will be facilitating one of these

[00:37:14] at the Lagoon

[00:37:16] focused on harness and community power

[00:37:18] I can't wait to work with her on it

[00:37:20] leadership moves in mysterious ways

[00:37:22] and so do podcasts

[00:37:26] I've friends and colleagues

[00:37:28] at the Rose Hill

[00:37:30] from the former Rose Hill Tavern

[00:37:32] I mean what they're doing

[00:37:34] is fantastic

[00:37:36] I mean the fact that they managed to

[00:37:38] take

[00:37:40] a pub that was on the

[00:37:42] it was for sale

[00:37:44] it was going to be taken over by developers

[00:37:46] and as an artist collective

[00:37:48] they managed to grab hold of this space

[00:37:50] raise the money with the support of the local community

[00:37:52] and turn it into this fantastic vibrant hub

[00:37:54] which is a jewel

[00:37:56] I think you know in Brighton's crown

[00:37:58] the Rose Hill

[00:38:00] a spectacular place

[00:38:02] as the artist Joseph Young points out there

[00:38:04] but also the Bevy

[00:38:06] Marlborough Productions

[00:38:08] the What's Next Group

[00:38:10] Dad LaSole, Stone and Bakehouse

[00:38:12] Brighton and Hove Citizens

[00:38:14] some of the countless examples

[00:38:16] of people taking a punt on something risky

[00:38:18] for the greater good

[00:38:20] but without a playbook

[00:38:22] and somehow making it work

[00:38:24] these awesome projects leave people exhausted

[00:38:26] and burnt out

[00:38:28] all the energy goes on just getting

[00:38:30] the thing to work

[00:38:32] and maybe that's the real leadership paradox here

[00:38:34] so much time leading

[00:38:36] but not enough time to lead

[00:38:40] what even is leadership

[00:38:42] within a city space

[00:38:44] some kind of force from an individual

[00:38:46] group that can galvanize

[00:38:48] advocate, leverage, negotiate

[00:38:50] inspire

[00:38:52] I think we need to ensure that leadership

[00:38:54] is never about job titles

[00:38:56] or power hierarchies

[00:38:58] but then so much time

[00:39:00] and scant resources are spent

[00:39:02] on specific projects

[00:39:04] the driven missions

[00:39:06] and I think that sometimes leaves

[00:39:08] the city lacking

[00:39:10] in systems leadership

[00:39:12] in theory as leaders of innovation

[00:39:14] and change and action get more experienced

[00:39:16] they should be able to step back

[00:39:18] and make way for others

[00:39:20] and to become systems leaders

[00:39:22] helping to design the bigger infrastructure

[00:39:24] so that everything can be scaled

[00:39:26] and learning is passed on

[00:39:28] paying it forward

[00:39:30] enabling others giving a leg up

[00:39:32] putting down the ladder all those sorts of things

[00:39:34] does that happen here

[00:39:36] it's starting to grow

[00:39:38] movements like circular bright and hoe

[00:39:40] feel like they are more built around

[00:39:42] a systems leadership model

[00:39:44] Matt Hunter from PlusX

[00:39:46] has made some observations on this

[00:39:48] about conscious and responsible business

[00:39:50] and how leaders mentor other leaders

[00:39:52] and he sees maybe

[00:39:54] it's still a work in progress

[00:39:56] extraordinary headstrong

[00:39:58] ambitious leaders are working on their thing

[00:40:00] but we haven't nailed

[00:40:02] a city wide culture yet

[00:40:04] of where mentoring and unlocking

[00:40:06] and sharing is

[00:40:08] really easy

[00:40:10] but maybe we are making progress

[00:40:12] we've been really

[00:40:14] impressed obviously with so many fantastic

[00:40:16] founders that we are working with

[00:40:18] and we recognize they have

[00:40:20] a real drive

[00:40:22] to move their businesses forward

[00:40:24] and when I think about

[00:40:26] the sort of

[00:40:28] the Brightonian community around us

[00:40:30] and the eyes looking at everyone

[00:40:32] you know, you doing things in the right way

[00:40:34] in some ways it could be quite intimidating

[00:40:36] are you doing things in the right way

[00:40:38] but I think that Brighton has a very high bar

[00:40:40] and indeed

[00:40:42] I would say that

[00:40:44] we really feel the eyes of Brighton on us as well

[00:40:46] but that's a good thing

[00:40:48] you know again like I say

[00:40:50] with movements like B-Corp

[00:40:52] it's absolutely trying to say

[00:40:54] that the path forward for businesses

[00:40:56] is so challenging

[00:40:58] because making a sustainable

[00:41:00] economically sustainable

[00:41:02] and growing business is hard enough

[00:41:04] let alone triple bottom line

[00:41:06] absolutely maximizing social

[00:41:08] impact and positive environmental impact

[00:41:10] and yet

[00:41:12] I really admire the fact that

[00:41:14] Brighton has such a high bar

[00:41:16] and will be critical

[00:41:18] now the only way it works however

[00:41:20] that it isn't an impossible tension

[00:41:22] is for the slight bloody mindedness

[00:41:24] the hard headedness

[00:41:26] as you put it of the founders

[00:41:28] and I suppose in my experience

[00:41:30] some of the most

[00:41:32] capable founders are just that

[00:41:34] they're just saying I hear what you say

[00:41:36] I've just got to get on

[00:41:38] I'm always going to listen

[00:41:40] I will have debates and discussions

[00:41:42] to be inspired and to nudge but ultimately

[00:41:44] you know I'm the founder of this

[00:41:46] business I'm the employer of these

[00:41:48] people

[00:41:50] we will make decisions and we will do the best

[00:41:52] we can and indeed that's the point

[00:41:54] about all forms of leadership

[00:41:56] they listen, they are grounded

[00:41:58] but at the same time they can't be paralyzed

[00:42:00] by sort of indecision or external critique

[00:42:02] they've got to get on

[00:42:04] and for me

[00:42:06] the same is true of PlusX

[00:42:08] and so many of our team here

[00:42:10] based in Brighton

[00:42:12] and they've got sort of they'll have national roles

[00:42:14] based here and you know

[00:42:16] I've had some fantastic discussions

[00:42:18] with so many people who are

[00:42:20] based here who will be challenging us

[00:42:22] on our environmental impact

[00:42:24] and our inclusion

[00:42:26] and our diversity and our sense of social justice

[00:42:28] so personally

[00:42:30] I see it as

[00:42:32] input and I have to be the

[00:42:34] chief executive with Paul my co-chief

[00:42:36] executive and we've got to move the place

[00:42:38] move it forward and I hope that

[00:42:40] again when we are supporting

[00:42:42] entrepreneurs we help them to navigate

[00:42:44] that because maybe that's the point

[00:42:46] I suppose that's the thing I think about

[00:42:48] is I don't see this as a paradox

[00:42:50] I just sort of see it as a conundrum

[00:42:52] which is Brighton has

[00:42:54] high values and

[00:42:56] real determination to be the best it can be

[00:42:58] if you get paralyzed

[00:43:00] by that you'll go nowhere

[00:43:02] but the job of

[00:43:04] experienced people is to say

[00:43:06] I'm going to coach you

[00:43:08] I'm going to support you

[00:43:10] I'm going to be here for you psychologically

[00:43:12] but I'm also going to push you forwards

[00:43:14] and surely that's the best thing we can do

[00:43:16] again to challenge as much as to

[00:43:18] nurture

[00:43:20] and I suppose the type of challenge we're giving though

[00:43:22] isn't a kind of holding back challenge

[00:43:24] oh I wouldn't do that if I was you

[00:43:26] it's more of a kind of I think you have to make a decision

[00:43:28] I think you've got to move forward

[00:43:30] come on what are we going to do about this

[00:43:32] so it's an action oriented thing

[00:43:34] I suppose you know that's also

[00:43:36] my background as a designer

[00:43:38] you

[00:43:40] remind it always I think it's Oliver Wendell Holmes

[00:43:42] it's a fabulous witty

[00:43:44] phrase which is that words

[00:43:46] are positioned some midway between

[00:43:48] thought and action as sometimes seen

[00:43:50] as a substitute for both

[00:43:52] in other words we can talk about stuff the whole time

[00:43:54] we're not really thinking we're just talking

[00:43:56] and we're not doing

[00:43:58] for me personally I like to think quite a lot

[00:44:00] and then do it

[00:44:02] and even to the point

[00:44:04] as I was sort of encouraged over the years

[00:44:06] to do more in teaching

[00:44:08] and again as I've said earlier on

[00:44:10] I love

[00:44:12] that growth that teaching

[00:44:14] creates in people and yet

[00:44:16] I so love the place

[00:44:18] I am here now because you see

[00:44:20] the impact that people make

[00:44:22] in the world it's the things that they create

[00:44:24] so it's both the people and the ideas

[00:44:26] I think that's the challenge here

[00:44:28] I think that's the opportunity here

[00:44:30] I admire Brighton's

[00:44:32] ethics and its values

[00:44:34] but I think the more that there can be

[00:44:36] support for forward action

[00:44:38] and to recognize there is peril

[00:44:40] in sort of indecision

[00:44:42] and naval gazing if you want to put it that way

[00:44:44] that's just a healthy balance

[00:44:46] let us not switch off

[00:44:48] the critics is that the right word

[00:44:50] I'm not sure but let's not switch them off

[00:44:52] but let's hear them

[00:44:54] but let's have some fall momentum

[00:44:56] the culture I suppose we're trying to build here

[00:44:58] it's the culture of start-ups

[00:45:00] start-ups are by definition

[00:45:02] unstable, crazy things

[00:45:04] and unless you're moving forward

[00:45:06] you're going backwards

[00:45:08] leadership is about taking space

[00:45:10] and being prepared to stand for something

[00:45:12] to bring others with you

[00:45:14] and to be prepared to be wrong

[00:45:18] in Brighton Hove

[00:45:20] I'm told on the one hand that there are too many leaders

[00:45:22] jostling for finite space

[00:45:24] and on the other that there is no leadership at all

[00:45:26] and that no one is offering a clear direction

[00:45:28] a plan of action or something

[00:45:30] really big to get behind

[00:45:32] so it seems maybe that one of Brighton Hove's strengths

[00:45:34] is in the space between

[00:45:36] the individual and the collective

[00:45:38] the big ego

[00:45:40] and the vacuum

[00:45:42] and what exists in these spaces

[00:45:44] it's the networks

[00:45:48] it was on the train to a client

[00:45:50] one day

[00:45:52] who I was going to visit up in London

[00:45:54] I hadn't worked with that company

[00:45:56] for a couple of years

[00:45:58] but when I had worked with them

[00:46:00] they were Brighton based

[00:46:02] I was sitting on that train

[00:46:04] thinking what the hell am I doing on the train

[00:46:06] I don't mind London

[00:46:08] I'd rather be down on the beach

[00:46:10] where they were previously so I got up there

[00:46:12] and I said to them what happened to you guys

[00:46:14] why did you leave

[00:46:16] and it was because their investors were based up in London

[00:46:18] and also because the staff

[00:46:20] that needed to grow at quite a rapid rate

[00:46:22] weren't here, didn't have the skill set here

[00:46:24] so it just kind of got me thinking

[00:46:26] about articles

[00:46:28] that I'd read back in the day

[00:46:30] everything started coming back to me about

[00:46:32] the discussion that was had

[00:46:34] around Brighton being the next

[00:46:36] so much kind of silicon value

[00:46:38] I guess it's not a manufacturing base

[00:46:40] but that next major digital hub

[00:46:42] and it had never quite achieved that

[00:46:44] this is Steve

[00:46:46] and I'm going to come back to him in a minute

[00:46:48] because he's really important in Brighton's leadership conundrum

[00:46:52] Brighton's networks do often wield

[00:46:54] a lot of power

[00:46:56] in previous episodes we've touched on the likes

[00:46:58] of Wired Sussex and Brighton Chamber

[00:47:00] Brighton Women of Colour Group

[00:47:02] and there are many, many more to add

[00:47:04] from across the community sector

[00:47:06] gaming, health, professional services

[00:47:08] fitness, culture, minority rights and so on

[00:47:10] when Andy Budd was deciding between Brighton

[00:47:12] and Bristol as a place to resettle

[00:47:14] in the early noughties

[00:47:16] that he chose the place with the most active web

[00:47:18] design network

[00:47:20] and Brighton's myriad of meetups

[00:47:22] niche interest groups, cells

[00:47:24] and collectives are in many ways

[00:47:26] what leadership looks like in the city

[00:47:30] but the challenge is that these tend to be

[00:47:32] small networks

[00:47:34] of often very small organisations

[00:47:36] we started thinking about well what if it had

[00:47:38] we wouldn't be looking at

[00:47:40] moving

[00:47:42] you know I know companies are sized

[00:47:44] based in London

[00:47:46] companies that can be twice the size

[00:47:48] up in London and they're just in London

[00:47:50] three times the size up in Manchester

[00:47:52] Bristol

[00:47:54] and I thought well can we have that here

[00:47:56] started to think about the reasons

[00:47:58] that we felt really that Brighton

[00:48:00] hadn't punched at the level it could have

[00:48:04] and at the time it's changed actually a lot now

[00:48:06] but at the time

[00:48:08] investors weren't taking much interest

[00:48:10] in the city

[00:48:12] so a lot of them were centred around the big cities

[00:48:14] generally when you start up

[00:48:16] you go to where your investors are based

[00:48:18] when you seek investment they like to wrap

[00:48:20] you around their

[00:48:22] services that they're already providing to the other

[00:48:24] companies within their network

[00:48:26] accounting finance HR recruitment all of that type of stuff

[00:48:28] so we thought if we could do

[00:48:30] can we do something to spotlight what's happening here

[00:48:32] can we do something to spotlight the businesses here

[00:48:34] to make the investors take note

[00:48:36] one of the other reasons this company

[00:48:38] moved up to London was because of labour supply

[00:48:40] and we started to think about

[00:48:42] why would that be because there's

[00:48:44] shed loads of people that get

[00:48:46] on the train every day and go up to London

[00:48:48] so why aren't they staying down here

[00:48:50] and

[00:48:52] yeah there's certainly

[00:48:54] the draw of the money and that's always been difficult

[00:48:56] to match down here in Brighton

[00:48:58] that's something that needs to be worked on

[00:49:00] but also quite a lot of people

[00:49:02] that work down here come here with very

[00:49:04] cutting edge

[00:49:06] skill sets

[00:49:08] but one of the wonderful things about this city

[00:49:10] is the work-life balance that

[00:49:12] it kind of pushes you towards

[00:49:14] which is what makes it amazing you've got the beach

[00:49:16] the downs

[00:49:18] when it comes to the evening the last thing you want to do

[00:49:20] is think about spending time

[00:49:22] on your own personal development and you need

[00:49:24] to do that to stay ahead in the

[00:49:26] in the digital game so when these companies are scaling

[00:49:28] up and they're looking for top bleeding edge talent

[00:49:30] they're not finding it down here

[00:49:32] because a lot of the established

[00:49:34] engineers down here have settled

[00:49:36] into what they do

[00:49:38] and yeah arguably their skill sets

[00:49:40] not what it was and sometimes you need to

[00:49:42] go to the big tech cities

[00:49:44] to find it and it's understanding

[00:49:46] where that technical skill sets

[00:49:48] gained and I've been to meet-ups

[00:49:50] for years now and a lot of them have been in London

[00:49:52] and that's where

[00:49:54] the good engineers I know learn

[00:49:56] new things because you only learn

[00:49:58] generally what you're working on on a day-to-day basis

[00:50:00] the extra bits and pieces you learn

[00:50:02] from friends, colleagues

[00:50:04] or you know, meet-ups

[00:50:06] or from the tech community

[00:50:08] Steve Rackley is a recruiter

[00:50:10] and as he says

[00:50:12] he bases business in Brighton because of the lifestyle

[00:50:14] but was only really making

[00:50:16] any money from London clients and London networks

[00:50:18] so he decided to have a go

[00:50:20] more locally

[00:50:22] see what it would be like

[00:50:24] to create spaces for Brighton-hove businesses

[00:50:26] to meet up and collaborate

[00:50:28] around emerging ideas in recruitment

[00:50:30] and technology

[00:50:32] and he was hugely groundbreaking there

[00:50:34] or particularly new

[00:50:36] but the way he did it was

[00:50:38] and as Silicon Brighton developed

[00:50:40] and still develops

[00:50:42] it is clear that this network is a bit different

[00:50:44] rather than simply connect

[00:50:46] together existing people in Brighton-hove

[00:50:48] to share what they've been up to

[00:50:50] over a pint

[00:50:52] this network has pushed people to think

[00:50:54] in new ways

[00:50:56] and to think

[00:50:58] about looking up a bit more

[00:51:00] more aspirational

[00:51:02] consciously a bit bigger reaching outside of the city

[00:51:04] Silicon Brighton has begun

[00:51:06] to foster a more visible ecosystem

[00:51:08] of leadership and decision-making

[00:51:10] 100% that

[00:51:12] it was the polishing

[00:51:14] and it was

[00:51:16] us wanting

[00:51:18] to share our experience

[00:51:20] of some of those larger meet-ups

[00:51:22] with some of the meet-ups down here

[00:51:24] and that's all we did

[00:51:26] we kind of laid out that

[00:51:28] you guys all go to the pub and meet up

[00:51:30] but

[00:51:32] you might have another 20

[00:51:34] 30 people come along

[00:51:36] if you find a place to run your meet-up

[00:51:38] that doesn't serve alcohol

[00:51:40] there's quite a few people who might prefer not to be around booze

[00:51:42] and stuff

[00:51:44] so what we thought we could do

[00:51:46] is work with these groups

[00:51:48] and we started really slowly curating

[00:51:50] a sort of playbook really

[00:51:52] of what they can work on

[00:51:54] to grow their meet-ups

[00:51:56] and what they were looking for

[00:51:58] they were just looking to provide more good

[00:52:00] with the time that they have

[00:52:02] what we then realised we were able to do

[00:52:04] is

[00:52:06] leave those groups

[00:52:08] to be their own

[00:52:10] to have their own

[00:52:12] their own shape

[00:52:14] their own

[00:52:16] identity

[00:52:18] and we could

[00:52:20] just do a very much of shared service across all of them

[00:52:22] around branding

[00:52:24] around connecting them all together

[00:52:26] by bringing them all together

[00:52:28] we could make sure all their meet-ups

[00:52:30] were on different dates so they're not

[00:52:32] sharing, they're not competing for an audience

[00:52:34] there were lots of talks happening

[00:52:36] at a lot of these groups that would work with other groups

[00:52:38] and that's been an issue for a lot of the group organisers

[00:52:40] over the years finding content

[00:52:42] and finding different speakers

[00:52:44] so we could start to share some of that

[00:52:46] amongst all of them

[00:52:48] so

[00:52:50] yeah, by being across all of them

[00:52:52] as I guess a sort of pseudo type umbrella thing

[00:52:54] we've been able to connect them all together

[00:53:00] perhaps what Silicon Bryson

[00:53:02] are doing is

[00:53:04] the managing of the complexity

[00:53:06] of the system

[00:53:08] seeing how everything interrelates

[00:53:10] and

[00:53:12] generally within the city

[00:53:14] that less of working in silos

[00:53:16] that collaboration because essentially

[00:53:18] everything in nature

[00:53:20] that in business is interrelated

[00:53:22] one thing has an impact

[00:53:24] on another

[00:53:26] so

[00:53:28] it's interdisciplinary connectedness

[00:53:30] and

[00:53:32] the facilitation to make that

[00:53:34] pleasurable experience

[00:53:36] as well and well possible

[00:53:38] really

[00:53:40] it's so important providing that

[00:53:42] platform is really key

[00:53:44] and I think another

[00:53:46] really great example, plus X

[00:53:48] Matt Hunter

[00:53:50] who heads up

[00:53:52] plus X at Bryson

[00:53:54] and also

[00:53:56] the

[00:53:58] Bright programme so connecting with

[00:54:00] the university

[00:54:02] particularly Bryson University

[00:54:04] enabling that collaboration

[00:54:06] is the really

[00:54:08] key part

[00:54:10] and the interconnectedness

[00:54:12] allowing for more creativity

[00:54:14] and innovation as well

[00:54:16] breaking down silos

[00:54:18] so there's

[00:54:20] different perspectives as well

[00:54:22] great thing about Bryson

[00:54:24] and Ho's there is a lot of different

[00:54:26] perspectives

[00:54:28] and that is a really powerful way

[00:54:30] to boost creativity

[00:54:32] and innovation

[00:54:34] this is Ed Chinn, someone I've got to know

[00:54:36] in the past couple of years

[00:54:38] someone very invested in Brighton and Ho's ecosystems

[00:54:40] although he doesn't live in the city

[00:54:42] he has become a sought after connector

[00:54:44] and conduit here

[00:54:46] and his belief in the power of systems

[00:54:48] leadership is spreading

[00:54:50] again it's the

[00:54:52] interconnectedness

[00:54:54] but that interconnectedness

[00:54:56] is really helped by shared

[00:54:58] purpose

[00:55:00] people are getting better maybe more confident

[00:55:02] more feeling more able to

[00:55:04] share their purpose

[00:55:06] and their values

[00:55:08] I think that's a really powerful way

[00:55:10] to collaborate

[00:55:12] you can take a horse to the water

[00:55:14] but you can't make it

[00:55:16] drink and

[00:55:18] some

[00:55:20] university or local

[00:55:22] council

[00:55:24] initiatives have worked fantastically

[00:55:26] others not so much

[00:55:28] and have been interesting

[00:55:30] to explore

[00:55:32] why

[00:55:34] that is what is the potential barrier

[00:55:38] for collaboration to take place

[00:55:40] I think the will

[00:55:42] is there

[00:55:44] I suppose real life

[00:55:46] as in business

[00:55:48] day to day concerns

[00:55:50] pressures

[00:55:52] can take priority

[00:55:54] but

[00:55:56] those organisations which have really made it

[00:55:58] pleasurable

[00:56:00] and

[00:56:04] fun

[00:56:06] interesting engaging

[00:56:08] with other people

[00:56:10] I think so important

[00:56:12] and something that Brighton does really well

[00:56:14] is

[00:56:16] genuine interest

[00:56:18] in others

[00:56:20] less transactional

[00:56:22] approach

[00:56:24] as it probably always has been

[00:56:26] with humankind

[00:56:28] that's the way things get down

[00:56:30] is by real genuine human

[00:56:32] connections

[00:56:34] that really can be boosted

[00:56:36] and accelerated

[00:56:38] by having a shared purpose

[00:56:40] a purpose that is bigger than an individual organisation

[00:56:44] or business

[00:56:46] and therefore

[00:56:48] really good clear mission

[00:56:50] and vision

[00:56:52] those

[00:56:54] it's easier to enrol other people

[00:56:56] internet get other people on board

[00:56:58] to use silicon

[00:57:00] Brighton again

[00:57:02] they've used that platform

[00:57:04] to set up sustainability

[00:57:06] parts

[00:57:08] because I appreciate there's people who have shared

[00:57:10] purpose, interests

[00:57:12] really want to get things done in that space

[00:57:14] and create a platform

[00:57:16] there and also with

[00:57:18] their diverse

[00:57:20] Sussix initiative

[00:57:22] on the social side as well

[00:57:24] but doing it in a way

[00:57:26] which not just uniting people

[00:57:28] on purpose and sat around a table

[00:57:30] it's engaging

[00:57:32] interactive

[00:57:34] and plenty of opportunity

[00:57:36] to get to know

[00:57:38] people in

[00:57:40] across different sectors

[00:57:44] leadership in Brighton has often become hard

[00:57:46] to spot

[00:57:48] sometimes hard to get behind in recent years

[00:57:50] whether that's the shrinkage

[00:57:52] of the big institutions through austerity

[00:57:54] the political and cultural fringes

[00:57:56] bumping up against each other

[00:57:58] but never individually strong enough to dominate

[00:58:00] or the sheer number

[00:58:02] of individual resource hungry

[00:58:04] projects that compete for bandwidth

[00:58:06] I don't know

[00:58:08] but from talking to people

[00:58:10] for this project it certainly

[00:58:12] feels like something is shifting

[00:58:14] and maybe there will be an elected mayor

[00:58:16] installed within the next five years

[00:58:18] either because the city wants one

[00:58:20] or because it's imposed upon us

[00:58:24] and maybe new dynamic individuals

[00:58:26] will find some momentum

[00:58:28] to drive change through a

[00:58:30] systems approach

[00:58:32] what is clear is that Brighton and Hove

[00:58:34] can be a leader in and of itself

[00:58:36] as the largest city in the south east

[00:58:38] outside of London

[00:58:40] it needs to recognise the benevolent influence

[00:58:42] it can have on the whole region

[00:58:44] the greater Brighton project

[00:58:46] is quite tense at times

[00:58:48] many other districts

[00:58:50] and towns that are included

[00:58:52] in the so called greater Brighton economic area

[00:58:54] are at best skeptical

[00:58:56] of the benefits to them

[00:58:58] and at worst deeply cynical

[00:59:00] about Brighton and Hove's motives

[00:59:02] and capacity and skill to be honest

[00:59:04] in making it work

[00:59:06] politics is messy

[00:59:08] to be honest

[00:59:10] Gowag Airport has been seen as the leading

[00:59:12] economic and prosperity centrefused

[00:59:14] for the past decade

[00:59:16] rather than this quirky citadel

[00:59:18] with the beach on the edge

[00:59:20] but as the high walls

[00:59:22] of the Republic of Brighton and Hove

[00:59:24] are maybe lowered slightly

[00:59:26] but they are not transparent

[00:59:28] there is a role for the city to be a partner

[00:59:30] and a galvaniser

[00:59:32] socially, economically, culturally

[00:59:34] not just grabbing land

[00:59:36] and telling people what to do

[00:59:38] but modelling ideas and opportunity

[00:59:40] as a laboratory for the 21st century

[00:59:42] with really strong

[00:59:44] and compassionate flows of information

[00:59:46] and people between neighbouring places

[00:59:50] perhaps of all the people I've spoken to

[00:59:52] you'd think that Sarah Springford

[00:59:54] Thomas might be one of the most fiercely territorial

[00:59:56] strict about the boundaries of activity

[00:59:58] in her city

[01:00:00] but not really

[01:00:02] what's interesting isn't it to think about

[01:00:04] one of the things about Brighton clearly

[01:00:06] is that it is a small city

[01:00:08] compared to other cities as we've said

[01:00:10] and it's close to London

[01:00:12] which has been a big advantage

[01:00:14] and it's got

[01:00:16] the sea which is fantastic

[01:00:18] but when you think about it

[01:00:20] from a business perspective

[01:00:22] actually the geographical boundaries

[01:00:24] don't really

[01:00:26] have any meaning

[01:00:28] apart from

[01:00:30] who's perhaps collecting your rubbish

[01:00:32] and we are much more

[01:00:34] looking outside of Brighton aren't we

[01:00:36] we're thinking about

[01:00:38] Lewis and Hastings

[01:00:40] and Eastbourne

[01:00:42] and Croydon

[01:00:44] and Burgess Hill and Worthing

[01:00:46] and Chichester and London

[01:00:48] all over the country

[01:00:50] although we are

[01:00:52] at the moment Brighton and Hove

[01:00:54] but actually it's a much wider area

[01:00:56] for business isn't it

[01:01:12] in the next episode

[01:01:14] the final episode of the Brighton Paradox

[01:01:16] you won't hear much of me

[01:01:18] hurrah

[01:01:20] it will be a final look at what's next

[01:01:24] what do people want for the next decade

[01:01:26] what have we learned

[01:01:28] and where's it going

[01:01:30] and you'll hear a buffet of voices

[01:01:32] structured around the four big questions

[01:01:34] that I think have come out of this whole program

[01:01:38] number one how do we keep Brighton

[01:01:40] weird the city is the UK's

[01:01:42] laboratory and how do we

[01:01:44] grow that philosophy

[01:01:46] number two

[01:01:48] how do we pay it forward

[01:01:50] making space for new leadership

[01:01:52] and particularly young people to shape

[01:01:54] lead and disrupt

[01:01:56] number three

[01:01:58] how do we fix the ecosystem

[01:02:00] how do we be brave to make long-term

[01:02:02] change to the city's infrastructure

[01:02:04] and number four

[01:02:06] how do we supercharge community power

[01:02:08] harnessing the energy of everyone

[01:02:10] everywhere

[01:02:12] to shape the future

[01:02:14] thank you for listening

[01:02:16] to the Brighton Paradox episode 9

[01:02:18] this podcast investigation

[01:02:20] has been brought to you by always possible

[01:02:22] in collaboration with plus X

[01:02:24] and low-fi arts

[01:02:26] this project is generously supported

[01:02:28] by Brighton Hove Albion Football Club

[01:02:30] project partners are united us

[01:02:32] the University of Brighton's help to grow program

[01:02:34] Silicon Brighton and Illyriity

[01:02:36] Media and communications partners

[01:02:38] Assasic's Business Times

[01:02:40] and Fox and Bear

[01:02:42] original music is by Fatboy Slim

[01:02:44] Noray and Chris Thorpe Tracy

[01:02:46] a special guest contributors in this episode

[01:02:48] where Ed Chin

[01:02:50] Matt Hunter

[01:02:52] Sarah Springford

[01:02:54] Ian Trevitt

[01:02:56] Steve Rackley

[01:02:58] Joseph Young

[01:03:00] Andy Budd

[01:03:02] Naomi Alexander

[01:03:04] Simon Fanshawe

[01:03:06] and Seb Royal

[01:03:08] the Brighton Paradox is written and presented by me

[01:03:10] which is Freeman

[01:03:12] production and editing was by Chris Thorpe Tracy

[01:03:14] for Low-Fi Arts

[01:03:16] production support and project management

[01:03:18] and editing technical facilities

[01:03:20] and further support were provided

[01:03:22] by plus X innovation hubs

[01:03:24] alwayspossible.co.uk